“There’s a range of challenges, but that’s not to say that we shouldn’t look carefully to see if we can see what the right solution is. I personally, and the board, need to understand the pros and cons a bit more fully, before we can take it much further.”
Ahead of the Bledisloe Cup series kicking off next week in New Zealand, Kirk also spoke about his unique view on Australian rugby as a Sydney resident, his enjoyment of the Wallabies’ resurgence, the level of pressure on the All Blacks and coach Scott Robertson after a record defeat last week, and why South Africa are missed in Super Rugby. And Kirk also shot down the prospect of New Zealand picking players from overseas.
AUSSIE CONNECTION
After a 19-Test playing career crowned by captaining New Zealand to a Rugby World Cup win in 1987, Kirk is regarded as All Blacks royalty. And after a long stint as president of the NZ Players Association led to him being recruited last year to chair a new independent NZR board, Kirk is one of the most influential figures in New Zealand Rugby.
But Kirk is also deeply entwined with Australia, on several fronts. The 64-year-old has lived in Sydney with his family for over 20 years, after moving to Australia for work. Kirk now runs venture capital fund Bailador Technology Investments, and his distinguished CV also includes executive, board and chair roles at dozens of leading companies, including Kathmandu and Fairfax Media between 2005 and 2008, then-owner of the Sydney Morning Herald.
“I even did your job once or twice, actually, when your colleagues were on strike,” Kirk laughed, referencing rugby columns he wrote for the Herald in 2008 when journalists walked out over job cuts.
Like his wife and three kids, Kirk is now even an Australian citizen, having become a dual citizen in 2009. He spends plenty of time in planes crossing the Tasman.
David Kirk is now a leading Sydney businessman.Credit: Louise Kennerley
But leading the traditionally insular NZR, Kirk living in the hyper-competitive Australian sporting market has provided him with a rare, first-hand perspective on the challenges rugby faces for relevance and survival, and the role New Zealand can play in that battle.
“It’s definitely given me a perspective for how difficult it is, and how hard and how intelligently the administration needs to work to make the money go the right distance, and the difficult decisions they’ve had to take over the last couple of years, like dropping to four [Super Rugby] teams,” Kirk said.
“It couldn’t really sustain five but it’s hard to do. And it’s already benefiting of both the competitiveness of the Australian Super teams, but also the Wallabies. So definitely delighted to see the improvements and it’s a pretty good trajectory.”
Relations between RA and NZR have often been rocky over the last decade, particularly around COVID.
Joseph-Aukuso Suaalii has been a star man behind the Wallabies’ resurgence.Credit: Getty Images
“It’s been pretty warm for most of the time,” Kirk said. “It certainly went cold when (former NZR chairman) Brent Impey was stomping around in his hobnail boots trying to dictate to Australia. It didn’t work. It didn’t go down well. So we’re past that well and truly.
“I’m a bit older than both Daniel Herbert and Phil Waugh, so I didn’t play against them. But we know each other well and we talk regularly.
“There’s just a commitment to the legacy of competition between the two countries. We sort of feel it as well as know it. And so, it just makes it as warm as it can be, really, and as close as it can be.”
BLEDISLOE BATTLE
Don’t mistake a Sydney postcode and support for a recovery of Australian rugby for mixed Bledisloe loyalties, however. Kirk’s blood remains jet black.
The Wallabies head to Auckland on Sunday ahead of a clash with the All Blacks at Eden Park next weekend; a hoodoo venue where Australia hasn’t won since 1986. Kirk was there.
Tom Wright secures the ball in the Bledisloe Cup last year.Credit: AP
“I’m actually still the last person to lose, as captain of the All Blacks, to lose to the Wallabies on Eden Park in ’86,” he said.
For the next 20 years, the Wallabies held the Bledisloe Cup for eight of them. But in the 20 years after that, New Zealand have never let it go. More competitiveness from Australia would benefit everyone, and while Kirk will never being cheering the Wallabies on, “I’m willing them on”.
“I was really pleased to see them compete so well with Argentina and South Africa,” Kirk said. “It’s a sort of self-fulfilling cycle. If the Wallabies are doing well and being really competitive, more people are playing, and Super Rugby teams are stronger and the Wallabies are stronger – and it all builds on itself.”
ALL BLACK PRESSURE
After the All Blacks lost to Argentina and then crashed to their biggest ever loss last weekend against South Africa, New Zealand has plunged into a rare, but all-too familiar, state of crisis. Media sites and talkback radio are full of opinions around why the aura of All Blacks is fading.
“It’s less mourning, and more, you know, unacceptable,” Kirk said. “We [the board] are not happy, no one is happy. I take my chair hat off and put my fan hat on, because that’s the lens through which I answer these questions.
Ardie Savea and the All Blacks react after losing to the Springboks.Credit: Getty Images
“I just don’t feel as if the All Blacks are playing consistently well enough. They’re playing really well when they play well, and they’re letting their standards drop, as they’ve done twice now this season. So, as a fan, just feeling like they can do better.”
But asked if there was a scenario where more All Blacks losses could lead to a contemplation of change around Robertson and the coaching staff by the NZR board – as happened to Ian Foster in 2022 – Kirk said: “There is no contemplation of that. At all. We’re fully supportive of the current team and management.”
Kirk also shot down the prospect of New Zealand copying Australia and picking select players from overseas, which was endorsed this week by ex-All Blacks like Justin Marshall.
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“No, that’s not something that’s live, no,” Kirk said. “We are committed to having our best players playing in New Zealand to make them available, if they want to be available for test matches.”
That even extends to NZR not considering an open borders policy in Super Rugby, which would allow Kiwis to play in Australian sides and be eligible for the All Blacks.
“We’re feeling it’s best to keep the best New Zealand players playing for the New Zealand teams, because it gives us the strongest domestic competition, and the biggest games that we see are the local derbies. Those are the big money spinners for us,” he said.
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